Coolant Leak

[Reed7742]

Hello,
2020 Svart 701. Took a ride this morning and when I parked my bike let up a plume of white smoke. Needless to say, this was concerning. I started looking around and noticed coolant pooling under my starter motor and when I put the bike on the kickstand, it spilled onto the cat. The bike isn't overheating and doesn't feel down on power, but this is an issue. I called my dealership and was informed that I am a little under 1 month out of warranty and that they suggest I fix it myself. Obviously, this ruined my morning.....

My first question is, where would coolant leak from the back of the motor? I ran my finger along the head gasket and it was dry. I didn't see any obvious white drips coming from the head. It appears to be leaking from under the starter motor.

My second question is if there is anyone I can get in contact with at husky to see if they'll cover whatever the issue is. The bike has 4k miles on it, is bone stock aside from a slip-on, and was purchased at the end of September 2020. The dealer has performed all maintenance.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Reed7742]

Quick follow-up, I pulled the starter motor and there was a crevice that was full of dried coolant. I cleaned everything really well, reassembled it, and ran it until 4 bars while on a wheel stand. After I shut it off, I removed the starter motor again and didn't see any coolant. I'm not sure if this is just happening under load, but I assumed 4 bars was when the thermostat opened as I've never seen the bike above 4 bars.

 

[Reed7742]

So after it cooled down, the coolant started to weep from the circled areas. They look like cracks on the outside of the cylinder to me, but I'd like a second opinion. The bare metal spots are from where I rubbed a pick against the surface trying to feel for cracks and it just flaked right off. I'm calling corporate Husqvarna on Monday to see if they're willing to good will it since I can't fathom that this is my fault. If I'm dumb and caused this, someone please tell me what I did wrong so I can stop doing said thing. Since they're unlikely to cover it since I'm technically 3 weeks out of warranty, I did some research and found that I can get a cylinder with piston and appropriate gaskets for close to $400. This seems absurdly cheap to me. Part number for the cylinder/piston is 7663013824433. If someone could confirm that this is what I think it is, I'd be greatly appreciated.




Probably shopping cart with part numbers:

 

[Actionabe]

That’s crazy, usually you would expect to see that kind of casting porosity on a cheap Chinese casting..

 

[Reed7742]

That’s crazy, usually you would expect to see that kind of casting porosity on a cheap Chinese casting..

So I'm not just crazy and this looks to be a casting issue, right? I'm just frustrated because I have 3 bikes (first world problem...I know) and I had been riding the vintage motorcycle to prep for barber. This issue would have likely reared it's head last month if I would have rode it.

 

[Actionabe]

I am no expert but that’s what it looks like to me, a casting flaw, really no way for you to have caused that kind of leak.. hopefully the company makes it right for you .

 

[papaxris]

@Reed7742
I have never seen an issue like that and would have to assume it is related to a casting issue as @Actionabe previously mentioned. If that is the case, that is incredibly unfortunate and an issue for concern.

Are you able to document the seapage thru the cylinder head casting?

Has anyone else experienced these type of quality issues with Husky's before?

Please keep us posted on your progress and how its handled by the dealer.

 

[Reed7742]

So this is where it sits now. I contacted Husqvarna USA and was basically informed that I am out of warranty (Purchase date is like 9/19/20). The good news is that they seemed amenable to fixing it if it is determined to be a defect. However, the rep did say that when motorcycles have had defects outside of the warranty period that they have shipped parts to the dealer, but labor would not be covered. He did allude to my bike not being that far out of the warranty period, but that could be the response.
My next step would be to contact the dealer tomorrow to schedule and approve diagnostic time. My dealer has been fairly good to me outside of this issue, so I'm hoping that we can have a conversation and try to figure out what the best course of action would be. The last thing that I'd ever want is to be on the hook for $1k in labor costs for diagnostics, which is unlikely but possible, with a motorcycle torn apart in the shop and Husqvarna decide that they won't cover it since they're under no obligation as it is outside of the warranty period. Even if the parts are covered, labor would likely be more than just fixing it myself. I'll need to wait and talk to the dealership first, but I'm incredibly tempted to just order a new cylinder and fix it myself.

 

[papaxris]

Definitely a pickle. I concur prior to having any work done, there should be a formal agreement; the labor is definitely the most costly part of this.

I would perform the self-repair as a last resort if you can't reach an agreement with Husqvarna.

I had a similar experience many years a go with a vehicle. The gearbox was not engaging correctly and I had mentioned it to the service several time. The diagnosis would always come back that everything was okay, until it wasn't.

The gearbox broke and the car left me stranded, all while my warranty had already run out. I was able to reach an agreement with the dealership, that if the gearbox shows signs of abuse, I'll absorb the costs. Of the gearbox looks unabused then the dealer needs to make it right. We agreed on a list of items on what constitutes as signs of abuse and ultimately they made right and fixed it.

I'm of the impression if your bike shows no signs of abuse, then it should be considered a manufacture defect. Not sure if that's a conversation you had or even if that's a conversation you may want to have with Husqvarna and the dealer.

The best way to be sure if there is a crack in the casting is by using nondestructive surface crack testing. That type of testing is likely more costly than the sum of new parts

 

[BISavage]

Not being familiar with metallurgy; isnt that something that should surface itself relatively quickly, and not a year later?

Is there any other possible reason, like crossing a creek, which can cause that?

If not, and it is obviously a material defect, it should be pretty easy to argue, right? (admittedly having no clue about the manuf. process of cylinders, I have no clue...)

Worst case though, a complete rebuild of the motor will run between 1500 and 3000, depending on which parts you throw at it, and how fair the labor rates are.

 

[Reed7742]

Not being familiar with metallurgy; isnt that something that should surface itself relatively quickly, and not a year later?

Is there any other possible reason, like crossing a creek, which can cause that?

If not, and it is obviously a material defect, it should be pretty easy to argue, right? (admittedly having no clue about the manuf. process of cylinders, I have no clue...)

Worst case though, a complete rebuild of the motor will run between 1500 and 3000, depending on which parts you throw at it, and how fair the labor rates are.

I'm the furthest thing from an expert with metallurgy so I'm not sure at all. I posted some parts earlier in the thread where I could get a cylinder/piston/gaskets for under $400 and it looks to be a reputable site. These are basically big dirt bike motors and I've rebuilt several 250/450s in the past so I was planning on just doing it myself unless there was something wild to look out for. Just pulling the cylinder should be a fairly straight forward task if I don't have to split the case. I haven't contacted the dealer yet today. I was planning on going in after work so I could discuss it face to face. I'll provide an update after I have that conversation.

 

[BISavage]

Yeah, and the question then is if any "upgrade" will be done like performance piston, or some head machining, or or or.

By the time you add oil, filters, coolent, exhaust gaskets, bolts, etc, it all adds up.

 

[Reed7742]

So post dealer update. I spoke to the service manager and scheduled a coolant pressure test for next week. I did confirm the parts numbers with the parts counter as well. The good news is that the cylinder/piston on these is pretty cheap. The bad news is that they're on in indeterminate backorder. The parts counter computer had "ETA UNKNOWN" in big red letters. My biggest fear now is that they find a defect, but since the bike is out of warranty they will only cover parts and not labor. Labor is, by far, the most expensive part of this. If this is their decision, they're essentially holding my bike hostage because the only way to get a new cylinder is through warranty work since they've basically been discontinued. I doubt that they'll just send me the parts or allow the dealer to hand the parts over to bypass labor. That is if they even have a backstock of parts for warranty work. I know when I had to have my original exhaust warrantied due to a coating defect, it took almost 3 months for the dealer to get the muffler.


I guess the next question is if there is any major difference between the 701 enduro/sumo cylinder/piston and the pilens. I would assume that there is a difference in pistons, but I don't see any reason why I couldn't reuse mine since the bike only has 4200 miles, still runs strong, and has no issues other than pushing coolant out of the casting. The other issue is the cylinder is sliver on the non pilens. That's annoying, but something I could live with...

This whole situation has put a bad taste for Husqvarna in my mouth. It sucks because my Svart is the best bike I've ever ridden. I 100% understand that warranties need limits, but it's frustrating that the battery I bought for my truck (which also died last Saturday....it was a rough weekend) has a longer warranty than a $10k motorcycle. I'm still hoping that they cover 100% of the parts and labor, but I'm not sure that's going to happen. I guess worst case scenario, I put my parts order in and it gets to sit in my garage for however long it takes to get the parts.

 

[BISavage]

7663013804433

In stock.

And it seems like the price for normal people is way more than whichever price you posted above.




The 701 supermoto and enduro both use a different cylinder kit part number, which is on backorder till next year.

 

[Reed7742]

7663013804433

In stock.

And it seems like the price for normal people is way more than whichever price you posted above.

View attachment 3705


The 701 supermoto and enduro both use a different cylinder kit part number, which is on backorder till next year.

Good to know that everything is on backorder.....

The link that you posted was what originally made me worry that I had an illegitimate site when I was looking at the cylinder, but the parts counter at my dealer had roughly the same price ($350 retail, $281 wholesale). I'm not sure why it's so much higher in Europe than in the US. That's good to know that it's in stock though. The site that I was looking at has them listed as in stock as well, but they drop ship directly from the KTM warehouse so it may not be updated in real time.

I noticed that the part number for the 701 enduro/sumo were different than the pilens, but I'm curious if this is just because the piston may be different and the cylinder isn't black. The diagrams look identical, but they obviously may have differences that aren't shown in the basic drawings. I believe that all of the LC4 engines are roughly the same with very minor differences in the head, but I could be dead wrong.

I'm hoping that the dealership will go to bat for me and this will all be a non issue, but I'm weird and obsess about stuff until it's solved so I'm trying to make sure that I have options available in any situation.

 

[Reed7742]

Post dealer update:

I took it to the dealer today. They ran a pressure test on the coolant system (15psi for 30 minutes), then let the bike idle for 4 fan cycles (service manager's words). They couldn't find a leak. Before I took the bike from the dealership, they advised that I take it for a quick spin since they don't do test rides. It immediately started leaking again. The service manager was as confused as I am because we looked at the head and base gasket and there were no visible leaks, but there was enough coolant to drip down past the starter motor and on to the exhaust. In fact, there were no visible leaks anywhere. The source is still located somewhere behind the starter motor on the back of the cylinder. He said that the pressure test should have forced coolant out anywhere that there was a leak. It was towards the end of the day, so he said they'd try and pull it apart again to locate the leak, but it would likely be tomorrow before they could get to it. I'll post another update after I hear back from them. I guess that there are microscopic spots on the cylinder that don't leak when the bike is cold but expand enough to let coolant by when it's warm, which I assume is when they would put a pressure test on it. The strange thing is that I figured it would leak when at temp, regardless if it's under load or not.

Still no word from Husqvarna Corporate as to what they're going to do in this situation. They've directed me that all further communication should come from the dealer. So far, I'm only $94 in diagnostic charges from the dealership, which isn't bad, but I haven't paid anything yet. The dealership wants to hold out until we hear if Husky will cover labor and parts (if they decide it is a defect) before they take my money. The dealer hasn't pushed for anymore billed diagnostic time either, so it seems like they've got my back.

 

[BISavage]

Guess that makes sense... I would expect amount of forces on the engine components under load are not comparable with stationary / idle / or stationary rev.

 

[Reed7742]

There is a resolution in sight. Husqvarna agreed that it was a manufacturing defect and they are replacing the part. They're only covering 2/3rds labor, which is annoying but better than nothing. Service manager said they charge 5 hours and Husky would cover 3. The total cost comes out to less than what it would cost for me to fix it myself so I approved it. The big issue is that the parts are on a big red "NO ETA KNOWN" backorder so who knows how long it will take to get my bike back. On the bright side, I don't have to get my hands dirty and the weather is getting cold so it's not the end of the world, especially since I have other bikes if the random nice day pops up.

Basically:
Parts/fluids covered.........$0
3 Hours in labor (1hr for diag 2 for swap)........$270+tax ($90x3)

 

[papaxris]

I'm glad that things have turned out for the better and in your favor. Thanks for sharing your story.

The whole situation is unfortunate and makes me a bit skeptical of the quality of the components used overall. Hopefully this was just a rare case.

Did Husqvarna state they have seen similar issues like this before? Perhaps a bad batch of cylinder heads that made it to production bikes?

 

[Reed7742]

I'm glad that things have turned out for the better and in your favor. Thanks for sharing your story.

The whole situation is unfortunate and makes me a bit skeptical of the quality of the components used overall. Hopefully this was just a rare case.

Did Husqvarna state they have seen similar issues like this before? Perhaps a bad batch of cylinder heads that made it to production bikes?

I asked if the service manager had seen anything like this before and he said no. I know I shouldn't be annoyed that it isn't 100% covered because I'm technically out of warranty, but it's still frustrating. They identified it as a defect within an hour of talking the the dealership. That should be cause enough to cover everything, especially since I've reported coolant smells prior to my warranty expiring. I guess the lesson is to RIDE YOUR DAMNED BIKES MORE lol. Everything that I've seen points to this being a really rare thing. It's just frustrating because it's been fantastic outside of this issue. My bike has never even burned oil and that seems like a common thing. I'm hoping that they explain what is actually wrong with the cylinder, but I doubt I'll ever hear anything back in regards to that.